ALL TORIES SHOULD READ THIS (cont.)

cont.
Whilst Maude is at the centre of a Conservative government supposedly committed to achieving massive public spending cuts, Middleton is hoovering up public money for its socialist ‘leadership’ training. But alongside the common purpose money comes cronyism, if not fraud.

A damning 11 page Confidential Surrey County Council Audit report dated September 2009 was commissioned after an internal investigation could not justify a £48,000 Council deal with Common Purpose to send four senior officers and ten external delegates on a CP training course. Several senior council officers, including the Chief Executive Richard Shaw had previously served on Common Purpose advisory panels and the Council’s normal procurement processes were waived when the contract was awarded. Amongst other criticisms of the Council’s relationship with Common Purpose, the report states: “It is the opinion of the auditor that value for money could not be demonstrated on the subsidy of 10 places on the Surrey [Common Purpose] InsideOUT programme.”

Unreported by mainstream press and media, Sheffield City Council recently had its circa £1 billion public accounts frozen by the auditor due to irregularities concerning Common Purpose contracts. As with Surrey, Sheffield is already infested with Common Purpose graduates.

In other numerous documented examples, Common Purpose has used public facilities for free, casually arranged future payments from within public sector budgets such as with Education Leeds, broken Data Protection laws, and compiled a ‘Black List’ of members of the public asking reasonable questions concerning Common Purpose, public money, vested interests and probity. Since Common Purpose has its secretive graduates and supporters in both the Audit Office and the Information Commissioners Office, not to mention the police, courts and prisons, transparency is apparently not one of its finer points.

What should be of immediate interest to cost-cutting Tories though, is that Common Purpose has already leached some £100 million from the taxpayers public purse over 25 years to pay for their behavioural and neuro-linguistic based training, which is creating thousands of so called ‘graduate new leaders of society’. The vision of the new Common Purpose belief system is to re-order traditional British society to meet a utopian socialist political and cultural change agenda. The so called Third Sector, Charities and the Voluntary sector are at the heart of this change or paradigm shift.

We must also remember that Common Purpose was at the centre of the Blair NuLabour socialist administration, and operated in close partnership with Prescott’s empire of the Deputy Prime Minister’s Office. So why the friendship between Common Purpose and Francis Maude?

Dear Francis, Love Julia - Dark Actors Behind The Scenes

True Conservatives will be shocked to learn that Maude and Cameron’s Cabinet Office are engaged in a secretive dialogue with Middleton to achieve a “Culture Change’ in the Top 200 civil servants using the “Common Purpose model.” An email obtained by the UK Column shows Common Purpose attempting to use her personal contact with Maude in the Cabinet Office to secure ‘training’ contracts. Dated 18 May 2010 the email states:

“Dear Francis, I think we - and quite a few Common Purpose alumni from the civil service - could help with the culture change you need to bring about. Could I and David Bell (Chair of Common Purpose trustees) come and see you for five minutes? Love Julia”

The overfamiliar ending “Love Julia” appears to be indicative of a very personal friendship between Middleton and Maude, and / or mirrors Middleton’s over-familiarity with other government officials from whom she has previously attempted to secure contracts.

Other documents obtained by the UK Column, reveal rather more to Middleton’s Common Purpose request than initially meets the public eye. In Senior Leadership Committee Minutes dated 9 June 2010 supplied by the Cabinet Office Item 7: Any other business states: “Running workshops for the Top 200 [Civil Servants] under the Common Purpose model was proposed. Committee members agreed to consider the costs.”

Contrary to Francis Maude’s declaration that “Transparency is at the heart of the Government's programme, which is why the Cabinet Office, at the heart of government is taking the lead.”, the Cabinet Office covering letter for the 9 June Minutes states.......”The Summaries of the Senior Leadership Committee meetings have been edited in accordance with Section 1 of the Act [Data Protection Act], and ‘personal data’ relating directly to third parties or their employment has been removed.

Readers will appreciate that whereas the redacting or blacking out of information allows the public to see original documents, the “editing” of the Leadership minutes by the Cabinet Office, can ensure that information can be distorted or lost without trace - the process becomes as transparent as fog.

Why would Maude’s Cabinet office be so reluctant to release the truth? Despite the crude attempt at censorship the minutes suggest a classic case of insider dealing and conflict of interest. Gus O’Donnell sits as a Chairman of the Senior Leadership Committee. He is also Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Home Civil Service, which means he has authority over all civil servants, including their employment and promotion. Of particular interest in this case is that he appears an enthusiastic supporter of Common Purpose.

Janet Paraskeva (First Civil Service Commissioner) is also a Common Purpose supporter and senior graduate, and she has close links to Julia Middleton. Paraskeva attended both the 9 June Senior Leadership meeting and others.

Surprisingly David Bell is also a Senior Leadership Committee attendee under his Pearson business title, and yes he attended the 9 June meeting. Bell is, of course the very same David Bell Chair of Common Purpose Trustees as mentioned in Middleton’s original email to Maude. Aside from a personal involvement with over 23 companies, he is also involved with the Common Purpose driven Media Standards Trust, which allegedly aims to ‘protect’ the independence of the UK media using the assistance of the corporate sector, including international banks.

Unless Maude’s own Cabinet Office staff edited them out, there are no declarations of interest from the Common Purpose members present in the 9 June meeting, nor is there any indication of which other Leadership Committee members are themselves Common Purpose trained.

Insider dealing and failure to disclose their activities under cover of so called ‘Chatham House Rules’, are standard Common Purpose graduate practices. At the other end of the scale the Common Purpose networks have hidden paedophiles; witness Cameron recently photographed with Merseyside Common Purpose paedophile Mathew Byrne.

As we have already stated, documentary evidence for Common Purpose’s abuse of probity across the public sector is overwhelming, but Maude’s case is at the heart of a Tory Government supposedly committed to rooting out waste and ensuring transparency for the public.

Aside from Maude’s position as Chair of the new Public Transparency Board based at the Cabinet office, he also stars on Common Purpose’s website as an active supporter. Yet another conflict of interest?

Local Tories Duped By Central Office

Before the last general election, many informed local Conservative party activists were becoming concerned about the political activities of Common Purpose, particularly where it was able to help implant and sustain a NuLabour socialist doctrine within the staff of Unitary Authorities, Councils, Quangos and the Third Sector by means of its secretive graduate networks. Local Councillors were quick to spot that Common Purpose ‘leaders’ amongst key Council Officers could effectively undermine and neutralise Conservative policy and values, even if the Tories were to be elected.

Across UK, Tory Councillors began to collect and report information on Common Purpose to Conservative Head office. Despite their growing concerns, they were told not to worry - Common Purpose would be rooted out from key organisations once Cameron was in power. In the meantime they were advised to watch, listen and report, but not to make a public noise. This advice can now be seen as a deliberate con trick by the heart of Cameron’s government. In line with the Fabian socialist agenda which advises “what we do with our hands we deny with our lips” Maude’s Cabinet office has been caught actively embedding the Common Purpose NuLabour socialist doctrine into the heart of the British Civil Service, by means of the ‘re-framing’ and ‘socialist re-education’ of the Top 200 Civil servants.

Further evidence that Cameron’s LibCon inner circle is a Blairite clone with common purpose is easy to find. The Cabinet Office has recently declared that it is to cut some 180 Quangos - the very unaccountable bodies that have been used to spread a new socialist agenda through the public sector and wider society with the help of Common Purpose. In a letter dated 26 August seen by the BBC, Maude suggested [apart from the 180 quangos to be cut] a further 124 quangos will be merged, 56 retained subject to "substantial reform", and 282 retained.

It sounds good, but thanks to the Taxpayers Alliance, we now know that In fact some 1162 Quangos exist with a total budget of some £64billion. So how many will really be left - most? Far from attacking this bureaucratic cancer and recovering the wasted billions, Cameron is creating another public smokescreen while he creates two super quangos - the Independent Board for the NHS and the Office for Budget Responsibility (Setting Britain’s Fiscal Framework). But the Common Purpose cancer is already well established in both the NHS, and the Treasury. For example Helen Bailey has overall responsibility in the Treasury for oversight of public spending on education and children; health; housing, communities and local government; and the UK's devolved countries and regions - representing in total over £250 billion a year of public spending. She is Common Purpose of course.

Whilst Francis Maude betrays true Conservatives in the dark, David Cameron prefers just to ignore the concerns of ordinary Conservatives - in August this year, he launched a major Common Purpose International event in Bangalore India. Tories shouldn’t be surprised at his betrayal of them. Cameron did tell the 1922 Committee that they would need to “get used to the New World Order”.

The stated socialist doctrine has always been to establish a world socialist government, and Common Purpose International is already connecting Common Purpose socialist cells world-wide to assist the cause. True Conservatives should be aware that Julia Middleton’s shopping basket is far from empty. It’s just that the extreme socialist content can’t easily be seen.

http://www.ukcolumn.org/articles/dark-actors-playing-games 

Morg

.

Terrible twosome

And later, when her dad's trying to give her a bollocking for dropping him in it ... she'll say "It wasn't me, it was her"; and the other one will say ...

Twins! Dontcha just love 'em.

And girls too - as sneaky as it gets. Bet those two wrap their dad around their little finger. Just like my daughter. That'd be one for mum to sort out.

"SHUT UPPERY" IN ACTION

The following story was published in the on-line Wigan Today newspaper last week. A comment facility was opened for this story, and no, this is not about the Editorial team. I have no complaints about them – they seem to have behaved impeccably. Indeed, they have been rather indulgent … so thank you sir.

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Girls-in-race-hate-attack.5161832.jp

However, the “Report Unsuitable” button for comments is too easily abused. I have tested it: click on ‘Report Unsuitable’, and a window appears; write in email address, then write in the appropriate space the reason the comment is unsuitable. Click submit. However, when I tested it I wrote random words in the reasons box … and five minutes later the comment was deleted anyway (I deleted a nonsense comment I had made especially for this test). This effectively gives readers the absolute power of censorship. In other words the reader can say “I don’t like you saying that, and I don’t want anyone else to read it, so SHUT UP!” … comment deleted.

“SHUT UP!” has been a common tactic for lefties over many years. They have developed many ways of saying it. Say or write something they don’t want anyone else to hear (can’t have people hearing all views and making their own minds up can we now) and they scream “Racist!”, “Nazi!, “Fascist!”, “Islamophobe!”, “Sexist!” … and numerous other words that all come down to saying the same thing: “SHUT UP!”. Ask an awkward question and they say “Shut up!”, point out an inconsistency – “Shut up”, why are we in the EU – “Shut up!” … and on and on it goes. They KNOW they have no answers that would be acceptable to the British people so away they go: “Shut Up!”.

The video linked to below says it all far better than I can. It is an American speaking – mostly about America – and there’s much in the detail that we can quibble with; however, just listen to the basic process being described, apply it to what goes on in this country from your own experience, and it will immediately strike a chord with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s

So, what’s all this got to do with a story in our local Wigan newspaper? First thing you must do is go to the above newspaper story link, then work your way through the comments one page at a time. Don’t bother reading the comments (yet) – just go through a page at a time – all the pages – and note the comment deletions. Several consecutive whole pages of deletions in one case – five or six pages (that particular episode was for just one comment of mine – he kept deleting it, I kept re-posting. Several hours of doing nothing else). Be patient and work your way through to the end – not reading, but just noting the deletions. You’re not losing anything because the entire conversation follows shortly in easily readable form (I’m typing them all out). The reason I want you to do that is so that you can see “SHUT UP!” in action.

Well I for one will NOT shut up. I have things to say – I’ll say them. I have questions to ask – I’ll ask them. Shut me up by deleting my writing – I’ll write it again. They don’t want to have to answer our questions and explain our observations – because they daren’t – so look – “JUST SHUT UP!”. And this isn’t just the SWP/UAF/Searchlight/HnotH etc – it extends right through our society from top to bottom and side to side, it takes in politics, the media, the entire Political Correctness culture.

So no, I wont shut up. What are you going to do about it pal? I’ve had enough of Shut Uppery.

And do note that it was NOT the Wigan Today editorial team that did this – it was leftard readers. They know they can’t stop us speaking, but that’s not really their intention: their intention is to stop ordinary people in large numbers from hearing. Oh no – dangerous. Good Lord – people might start making their own minds up if they could hear what non-leftards had to say, and making their minds up in ways the leftards don’t like. Get enough people doing that and voting behaviour might change, and THEN where are the leftards? Some readers – and I am inclined to believe this myself because of the pattern of events (described shortly) think Elliot Brown was the – or at least a – major deleter. Anyhow, read and make your own minds up. I have all that follows in screengrab form (for legal back-up if necessary), but all the deletions would make it to confusing to follow so for this post I’ve typed it out.

We were comprehensively defeated in this exchange – we won every battle, reached a satisfactory conclusion, but Shut-uppery won the war. There are lessons to be learned here. Please: take all the dreary time it takes to read the entire conversation here:

http://sirhenrymorgan.blogspot.com/

Please go read it all, and then email me with any insights you might have regarding lessons. You’ll be surprised at how even trivial stuff gets deleted just to break up the thread.

The “Sir Henry Morgan” website is a just a site I use to park stuff.

The version of the conversation posted here is heavily edited from nearly a week’s worth of conversation. It makes it look like we might have won – but we didn’t – “SHUT UP” won – by first diverting the thread away from discussion of the primary subject into politics and then into discussion of censorship, and back and forth spats. Essentially we were out-lasted because WE had a time limit to maintain public interest, but Shut-uppery didn’t. Insights – PLEASE!

COMMENTS; AND SOME COMMENTARY ON THOSE COMMENTS (any correction of typos, and any emphases, are mine). I have the original screengrabs for everything here.

Comment 1 – Thejones DELETED
Why is the race of the perpetrators shown in the article?

Comment 2 – sickofitall DELETED
Thejones. Simple, because it is only a racist attack if the perpetrators are white! Let’s see how long this stays on before the politically correct remove my reply.

Comment 3 – Thejones
My point (?concern) actually lies in the realm of fair 'equivalence'. My feelings are that it should ALWAYS be revealed or NEVER. For the record the perpetrators of this attack (which I condemn unreservedly) have not yet been charged with a 'race hate' crime so perhaps a little...premature? I have truly only just started to examine these things with a more critical eye in recent times especially with an eye on where to cast my vote in the EU elections (and NO, I have NEVER voted for the BNP and frankly, my inclination is to vote for Cameron but I'm not happy there either!).I am assuming your thesis can be proven? Ref free expression being 'moderated' away I have experience within this very journal of just such matters. Too complex to explain. I gave up with my repeated complaints to the editor. Hello by the way.

Comment 4 – Morgan DELETED
Like, for instance, neither this paper nor Peter Franzen saw fit to mention that though this wasn’t the case for all the protesters – ALL of those that attacked the four BNP members and their Landrover in Leigh three weeks ago with claw hammers (using the claw bit to hit Tony Ward in the head) and axes were Asian. ALL!Nobody in the BNP thinks these were peaceful Hindus; and we think such a cowardly attack would be beneath the warrior Sikhs; and thinking it might have been Buddhists is beyond a joke. What Asians does that leave?Leigh “tykes” Peter?Also not reported was that as Tony Ward stumbled away half blinded after the attack, the attacker actually stalked him to dish out more. Only prompt action by a horrified conscientious police officer prevented a possible tragedy.Also not reported was the action of a Leyther in stepping forward to help the four men under attack.But when two white teenage girls racially abuse an immigrant – every gory detail is reported in the press, right down to the appearance of the perpetrators.Report all, or report none.“Whitey did it”.

Comment 5 – C.Mather DELETED
The police seem to be taking this attack a lot more seriously than the hammer attack on a BNP member “because of his political viewpoint” perpetrated by a black man three weeks ago which could have resulted in his death.Punching anyone in the face is to be condemned, but a few slaps bu a teenage girl hardly compares with an attack with a claw hammer. So a “crime” against an ethnic minority is more serious than attempted murder with a hammer on someone with whom you disagree?I do not condone ANY violence to anyone but the police do not take violence against us as seriously as when it is the other way round.I suppose it helps the police to keep up their tally of “racial” incidents and ticks a few more boxes and no doubt justify Elliot’s job. We really have sunk to the depths in this country.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About here, after comment 5, I sent an email to Elliot Brown informing him of the fact of this debate that looked to me like it might get interesting. I was already hoping that Peter Franzen might involve himself in the debate, to the amusement of all, and further hoped that knowledge of what was going on here might tempt Elliot into the fray. No such luck: Peter is probably still feeling burned from his last encounter with ordinary Wigan people, as most likely is Elliot (my God he was stupid wasn’t he!) after his last encounter. However, very shortly after that email to Elliot, the deletions started. Coincidence? You can decide that for yourselves – but you already know what he’s like.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment 6 – Thejones DELETED
C Mather Although there is a danger of re-visiting old ground the point is it certainly sems to be related since on the occasion of the reported hammer attack I had grave concerns over the veracity of reporting essentially due to the content of some comments I felt then (and still do) to be fanciful at best. I tried to gain an accurate picture from a commentator who stated that he was there only to find that all submitted comments (including the fact they existed) removed. That episode has led to a profound scepticism about what I read. I only now exercise my eyes with this journal purely BECAUSE of the manner in which they treated a perfectly reasonable debate.I completely digress. Apologies. However, as an increasingly interested observer I cannot escape the feeling that there is a distinct difference in how these events are reported.I am, however, completely open to contrary evidence.

Comment 7 – Thejones
(all it said was ??? because comment 6 above had been deleted) DELETED

Comment 8 – ThejonesMay one assume that no reasonable debate may be had as the hatchet is already being swung?

Comment 9 – Morgan DELETED
Hello Elliot – I see from the deletions that you got my email. Did you get the second one?Why are you wasting your time with all these deletions? The whole lot, comments and all, will be posted on the Wigan Patriot website on Monday or Tuesday – and the deletions will make it more interesting, not less, to the general reading public. If you don’t like what we’re saying, then argue with us.Or don’t you have any valid arguments to use? I suspect that is nearer the truth isn’t it.Come on Elliot, climb aboard and debate.

Comment 10 – Thejones
With all due respect to whomever, would you please just state why the farce of the deletions is occurring? At least state what the boundary for the debate IS, if nothing else.Who is Elliot?

Comment 11 – Morgan DELETED
Well Elliot – you don’t learn do you.Look pal – I have no social life to lead over the weekend – sad I know, but this IS my social life. And, in effect, my work. Up for a stayawakeathon? This will be up on Wigan Patriot next week. The more you do this the more readers you will send to us.

Comment 12 – Morgan DELETED
Thejones Elliot is Elliot Brown, Wigan and Leigh Hate Crime Coordinator.E-mail: commsafety@wigan.gov.uk He introduced himself to us on these pages a year or so ago. Wonder if his literacy has improved since then?

13 – thejones
Eric Arthur Blair (25 June, 1903 – 21 January, 1950),[1] better known by his pen name George Orwell, was an English author. His work is marked by a profound consciousness of social injustice, an intense opposition to totalitarianism, and a passion for clarity in language.

14 – thejones
Due to someone’s LACK of clarity of language the entire 'meaning' of the thread of these comments has been lost at this point.Intentional I don't doubt but ultimately counter-productiveThere was a debate about the credibility of media reporting of certain categories of crime and the differential bias that seems to be evident using the hammer attack recently as a comparitor. Someone reading this out there clearly does not have a valid viewpoint of their own given their inability to engage in meaningful debate.Any relevant comment? someone?.. I am trying here.

15 – thejones
comparAtor........not very clear there...apologies

16 – Morgan
TheJonesI think you may be asking for too much.

17 DELETED
This comment was deleted before I could grab it.

18 – sickoffitall
Why ask for readers to comment ??? Then when comments don’t meet with the "Mantra" of Political Correctness you erase them ??? I always thought that once we had free speech here, obviously not, as the "Stazi" decide on another part of our freedom's we are not allowed, why don’t we all just go the whole way and have the "Thought Police" come along and arrest anyone who has anything in their mind that goes against the "NuLiebour" way of thinking !!! Welcome to the EUSSR.....I await my impeding arrest

19 – Wanderingwiganer DELETED
This comment was deleted before I could grab it.

20 – Morgan DELETED
Sickoffitall and Wanderingwiganer – this evening I will be copying out and reposting every comment that was deleted. I have them all screen-grabbed and will be posting them on the Wigan Patriot website Monday or Tuesday next week.
The deleter was/is Elliot Brown. I tested him and he failed the test. Details will emerge during conversation this evening - just like the last conversation that got entirely removed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The deletions were coming thick and fast now, and I missed those two grabs because I took time to write the above comment of my own, interrupting what had by now become a case of screengrabbing every comment as it appeared … before it was deleted. I am reasonably confident that at least at this early stage of the comment thread, and possibly for many of the later deletions, Elliot was the deleter. I sent him an email to try and tempt him into the conversation, but instead of that, the deletions started. The servers will show if I’m correct, if he chooses to take further action over that allegation. Bring it on Elliot. There is no such thing as anonymity on the internet.
Later, I was asked to post the deleted comments on the Wigan Patriot site for the benefit of those who had missed the earlier comments before the deletions started. This I did, but while doing it I missed out several more comments before they were deleted.
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21 – Sickoffitall DELETED
Notice how the reports always point out that a racist attack is committed by a person or persons of white origin ; if the other way around the attackers’ colour is NEVER mentioned … WHY? (just a honest question).
Again, I will see how long it takes before this comment is removed.

22 – Sickoffitall
WOW, my comment lasted 28 minute's before the "red pen Deleter" got to it, Obviously as I said before....Freedom of speech HAS been removed, unless it meet's with the "NuLiabor" way of thought !!!

23 – Wandering Wiganer
Morgan - Thanks for the update. I'm quite perplexed as to why my comments were deleted. My posts were written in an inquisitive and even-handed manner, with no negative connotations towards anyone other than the perpetrators. I'll say no more at this time and hope this post remains.

24 – sickoffitall
It seem's anybody that show's the slightest inclination to be able to have a valid question or comment on this page that even remotely "Lean's" toward's that terrible R word must immedietely be deleted !!!How sad that some people can only stay on the "Nuliabour" train of thought.

25 – Leviticus DELETED
PC McAllion stated “People cannot be allowed to get away with racism”. So will he be taking steps to tackle the racist Black Police Associatione whose constitution does not allow whites to become full members? Therefore denying them equal voting rights etc. Is that not discriminating because of race? And it has to be said – if the boot was on the other foot and two black lads/girls had attacked a white lad/girl would this be as vigorously investigated? I note the lack of comment from the former councillor from Golborne here. Talking of former councillors does anybody know what sentence ex-councillor Joe “The Paedo” Shaw was given this week?

26 – Morgan DELETED
WW and Sickoffitall
The bounds of this debate seem to be set by four criteria:
1 Darkie is utterly wonderful in all respects
2 Whitey is utterly despicable in every respect
3 Charles Mather and
4 I are both known BNPers.
An entirely black and white (unintentional, but I know of no other words to describe this) view of this kind of topic, with no room for shades of grey.
Oh – and a complete inability on the part of the Cretin Deleter to answer any of the questions raised. Just shut down all comment in case ordinary people see it, and start arriving at conclusions of their own. Can’t answer the message – kill it; or attempt to kill the messenger with a claw hammer.
Well Cretin Deleter – word in Labour and Tory circles now is that you have to engage with the BNP, argue with them (us, in my case) or lose the public by default because they are getting the message anyway via the interwebbythingy. So – debate? Or suppression like the once East Germany? And look what happened there …

27 – Wandering Wiganer
I can't speak for others, but i wasn't even looking in the general direction of the 'R' word. This is an extremely sensitive subject, and therefore the event that initiated this crime must be clearly identified to avoid misleading the public. I hope justice is done regardless.

28 – Leviticus DELETED
Thejones – Elliot is Elliot Brown, the council’s (racist) Hate Crime Co-ordinator who branded the people of this town as inbreds on this very website. A formal complaint was made to the council but it was just swept under the carpet. After identifying himself as a council officer he had a duty of care to ensure nothing he said or did brought the council into disrepute but he failed to do so and that failure amounted to gross misconduct for which he should have been sacked. So one can only assume that by failing to take action the noo Labour council must endorse his disgusting comments.

29 DELETED
Comment deleted before I could grab it

30 – Morgan DELETED
Leviticus – I already told him that but was deleted. I explained the criteria for debate/deletion in my above deleted comment. One of them is that I’m a known BNPer. My words must not be listened to or read in case I pollute the minds of the general public. When censors act like this, they are not taking away my right to speak, they are taking away your right to hear and make your own mind up.

31 – Morgan
Comment 29 - please repeat as I missed the screengrab while storing the previous grab. The Cretin Deleter is getting into a frenzy of activity.

32 – Wandering Wiganer DELETED
May I make two suggestions to the WEP:
1 Remove the comment feature for this story, as it is clear a decent conversation thread will not be achieved or allowed. I do not agree with all that is being said, but I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED with whoever has deleted my earlier posts. They should have read them thoroughly.
2 The WEP investigate and amend this story to clarify what exactly started this incident, so as to avoid any confusion and room for doubt.

33 – Morgan
All confusion will be cleared up when I post all the deleted comments (apart from the three I've missed) - with my own narrative running through the thread - on the Wigan Patriot blog on Monday or Tuesday.

34 – Morgan DELETED
WEP don’t need to investigate – they know. It was my description of events three weeks ago when Tony Ward had his head opened up by a claw hammer-wielding racist Asian. An entirely accurate description accompanied by my question: why was this spat between a couple of teenage girls being treated as a race hate crime when that one wasn’t?

35 – celedrialjoy
Wandering Wiganer;The only way to stop the self appointed deleter is to phone the webmaster and complain. He has the power to ban the deleter from these pages, The more people that complain the better. Although as I have said before when this has happened it just makes me more curious as to what has been said. Morgan if you have saved all the deleted comments would you be prepared to post them all again at a later date or on a different website I would love to know what has FRIGHTENED the deleter so much.

36 – celedrialjoy
Sorry Morgan; I was writing my comment as you posted yours.

37 – Morgan DELETED
Celedrialjoy – Wigan Patriot Monday-Tuesday at the latest.
There is an additional factor to these deletions: they started very shortly after I emailed Elliot Brown giving details of this conversation in an attempt to draw him into this debate. I thought that as this sort of thing is his job, and as he is well paid for it with YOUR money, then he really should be here ripping me a new hole as he explained why I was wrong, and in the process winning the public over to his point of view.
So – intelligent enough to be a council officer on a salary I could only dream of (and my dreams are not that ambitious), but not intelligent enough to engage in debate with a thick knuckledragging racis fascist nazi. He loses by default – a “no show”.
Instead, he set about suppressing all debate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was unable to meet that deadline because this thread continued right through the week.
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38 – Wandering Wiganer
My comments were based around the syntax of the writer, not so much around the content. By not clearly stating a crucial part of this attack (the cause of the initial argument between the 2 parties), doubt has been cast as to whether the headline is correct and has caused an avoidable debate. I simply require clarification on this matter.

39 – Britishlady DELETED
“ ,,, why was this spat between a couple of teenage girls being treated as a race hate crime when that one wasn’t?”. Well said Morgan.
Come on, any answers? Anyone? Racism cuts both ways except if you’re white.
Watch me be deleted again.

40 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it.

41 – Morgan
Missed comment 40 - anyone care to repeat so I can grab it?

42 – Britishlady
The red pen deleter is very busy for a Bank Holiday hope he's on double time.

43 – Britishlady DELETED
Morgan
40 celedrialjoy
You get some “real truth” on the Wigan BNP website, and it is open to free speech and debate. No red pen deleter there.

44 – Britishlady
40 repeatedceledrialjoy,You get some " real truth " on the Wigan BNP website and it is open to free speech and debate. No red pen deleter there !

45 – Morgan
Thank you.

46 – celedrialjoy DELETED
Don’t wait for Monday or Tuesday, post all the deleted comments from these pages in the Wigan Patriot now. It wont take long for people to find out that they can go to that website and read what has been censored here. The WEP is going to lose a lot more visitors to these pages if they don’t start dealing with the little dictator deleters.

47 – Morgan DELETED
It will take quite a while to post the entire thing – what I’ll do tonight is write out and post the first 15 or so comments – the KEY COMMENTS to understand what is going on here then I’ll do a proper job Monday or Tuesday. These sorts of posts take quite some time to prepare when done fully. That ok? Be about an hour or two.

48 – Socialist 1
Tiocfaidh ar la

49 – Wandering Wiganer
I can't quite believe what's going on here. The person responsible for these deletions is clearly not reading the comments and is devoid of reasonable debate. As mentioned earlier, I am not in agreement with some of the comments here, but I respect their views and would not consider deleting them. People need to be allowed to read them and reach their own conclusions.PLEASE stop this phantom deleter, you're just adding fuel to the fire. Converse with others here and have your voice heard. You never know, people might actually agree with you.

50 – Britishlady DELETED
Google – Wigan Patriot.
Will take you to the real truth. Many of the WEP deleted posts can be read here. What they don’t want you to know.

51 – Morgan
Yes Wandering Wiganer. Precisely. Exactly my view.

52 – Morgan
Can someone take over the screengrabbing for a while? I need to go to the shop, then type out those first 15 or so comments. Please say.

53 – celedrialjoy DELETED
Oh dear, it seems I’ve joined the ranks of the deleted.
To the deleter: just because it’s easy to delete people’s thoughts on this website, it does not mean you can silence them!
You have by your actions made more people curious about what others have been saying on this subject. Tell me – are YOU a member of the BNP because you are doing a very good recruitment job for them.

54 – Socialist 1
The workers united will never be defeated, anti fascists united will never be defeated.

55 – Britishlady DELETED
Wandering Wiganer
Agree
They are simply bullies, unable to debate, only insult – and intimidate with claw hammers.

56 – Morgan DELETED
To screengrab:
Press /Shift+PrtSc/
Bring up a blank Word document
Locate cursor at start
Right click
(a menu will come up)
Left click on “paste”
The screen will be copied to the document. It will be too small to read so go to the toolbar at the top and change 100% to 150%.
Put arrow outside the picture and click Return (Enter) twice to locate the cursor for the next grab.

57 – Britishlady
Google - Wigan Patriot - read the real undeleted truthYOU CANNOT DELETE GOOGLE OR WIGAN PATRIOT BLOG

58 – Socialist 1
ha ha you lot are pathetic

59 – Morgan DELETED
With screengrabs, to save as a file:
Top bar
Click ‘File’
Click ‘Save as’
Name file
Click ‘Save’ button

60 – celedrialjoy
Tell the truth Mr deleter, youre just a lonely little person sat there feeling rather godly because you are able to hide behind a computer screen and delete without confrontation. You know there are people in the real world who can help you with your problems. Oh and by the way I have just visited the Wigan Patriot (for the first time) But it wont be the last! wonder how many more on these pages have visited the Patriots website because of you?

61 – Morgan
That way you can email the file to me later via the Wigan Patriot blog

62 – Wandering Wiganer
Hi Socialist,What are your views on this story? After reading it, I am concerned that a label is being put on these people although it is not clear (or certainly hasn't been presented to the readers clearly) what caused this incident in the first place. No doubt elements of the R word were involved, and should be dealt with accordingly, but was this the issue that started the argument between the wanted party and the victim, or something else? This, I feel, is crucial. I know I can rely on some form of reasonable debate on this.

63 – Morgan
British LadyPlease grab the comments one by one as they come up. I've explained how to do it. I'll be away for a while.

64 – Socialist 1
I don’t talk to Nazis

65 DELETED
Comment deleted before I could grab it

66 – Wandering Wiganer
If it is the case that these two individuals began attacking this person solely because of colour, then I hope they are locked up and left to rot. Let me make that clear.

67 – Wandering Wiganer
Socialist - Nothing I have written on this thread, or any other for that matter, has been about anything the other people on here are talking about. I do not share any of their views, other than I agree with them that someone should not be deleting posts on this subject as it is confusing other viewers (you are the prime example, assuming that I am in league with others here). I am here as an individual, I could not care less about other people's political views. I SIMPLY WANT CLARIFICATION ON THIS STORY, and hoped people could see my point. You've disappointed me.

68 – Socialist 1
Was I talking to you?

69 – Wandering Wiganer
No one else asked you a question.

70 – Britishlady DELETED
Why does this spat between teenage girls receive more attention and newsprint than the attack by an Asian on a white person with a claw hammer? Please explain.

71 - celedrialjoy DELETED
It is NEW-liabour that are the racists

72 – celedrialjoy
It is NEW-liabour that are the racists

73 – Socialist 1
britishlady' your views are vile

74 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it

75 – Wandering Wiganer
It is clear that this comment thread had turned into something else. Have a good Easter break everyone.

76 – Britishlady
Why does this spat between teenage girls receive more attention and newsprint than the attack by an Asian on a white person with a claw hammer? Please explain.
A claw hammer is more lethal and dangerous surely?
Asking this question makes a person VILE?

77 – Socialist 1
'britishlady' your views on here over a considerable amount of time are vile. your views make decent people want to throw up.

78 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it

79 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it

80 – Britishlady
Google - Wigan Patriot - read the real undeleted truthYOU CANNOT DELETE GOOGLE OR WIGAN PATRIOT BLOGYou can put the red pen away you sad pathetic moron, people can see you for what you are, your comments are noted. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE

81 – Socialist 1
am i bovvered?

82 – Socialist 1
celedrialjoy me thinks you tell porkie pies

83 – Morgan DELETED
To all those who requested I do a quick copy of the early comments here to get an idea of what all these deletions are about – it’s now up and is available on:
http://www.wiganpatriot.bogspot.com
As this gets deleted I’ll keep re-posting until I’m confident those interested have seen it. I’ll know this from the comments coming back from it onto here.

84 – Morgan
To all those who requested I do a quick copy of the early comments here to get an idea of what all these deletions are about - it's now up and is available on:http://www.wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/As this gets deleted, I will keep re-posting until I'm confident those interested have seen it. I'll know this from the comments coming back from it onto here.

85 – Socialist 1
its a shame NAZIS keep coming on here

86 – Morgan
It's a shame censors keep coming on here. A censor is someone who thinks he knows better than you what you should know in order to avoid the risk of you making your own mind about something.

87 – Morgan
Define your terms, Socialist1 - what is a NAZI?Or aren't you that clever? Any good with a hammer?

88 – Morgan
As I recall from my history books, a NAZI was a kind of person who imposed censorship.

89 – Socialist 1
NAZI SCUM you know who you are

90 – Socialist 1
i dont talk to NAZI SCUM

91 – Morgan
You don't have an ounce of argument in you do you - suppress, censor, shout names, attack with dangerous implements. That about sums YOU up.

92 – Morgan
And in case it passed you by - you already did.

93 – Socialist 1
YOU KNOW YOUR NAME THEN

94 – Morgan
By your own mysterious - known only to you - criteria/definition for/of NAZI SCUM, that is

95 – Morgan
Appears I’ve been banned from here – my comment wont go on

96 – Morgan DELETED
Ah – no, ok
Repeat of deleted comment 84

97 – Morgan DELETED
Repeat of deleted comment 96

98 – Socialist 1
paranoid ha ha your unbelievable with the sh@te you spout be gone DEVIL be gone!

99 – Morgan
Socialist1Comment 93 - you've yet again done what you said you never do.

100 - Morgan
It's ok Socialist1 - I worked out very quickly why my comments weren't going in. Amended my behaviour - and in go the comments.Do you have the brain cells required to learn something by your own working out?Oh - and comment 98

101 – Socialist 1
junction 11 ?

102 – Morgan DELETED
Repeat of deleted comment 97

103 – Morgan
Are you down in Reading Socilaist1?

104 – Socialist 1
well that would be telling

105 – Morgan
Repeat of deleted comment 102

106 – Socialist 1
me thinks you know what i mean lol

107 – Socialist 1
Paranoia

108 – Socialist 1
workers united will NEVER be defeated.

109 – Whatnicknameisnotinusethen?
If worthwhile debate and query cannot be used on here because of the fascist nazi loony left scum’s puerile censorship then how about we start their game of deleting everything? Socialist1, you are a troll.Anyway, back to the time line of what happened in this text..."... involved in a argument with two teenage girls, one of whom turned violent and punched her in the face four or five times. The victim *WAS* then racially abused and attacked again before the pair got off the bus in Bickershaw just after the Tamar pub."So, the racial slurs occurred AFTER the victims face was punched up?? In my book physical pain and damage is worse than any mouthing off two chav slags.Methinks police need to get issues in order.

110 – Whatnicknameisnotinusethen?
Socialist1.. Do you have a job? I fear we cannot attack what doesn't exist. You write like an 11yr old troll.Workers united indeed. At least us workers, WORK! Or, more to the point. Those who have worked, done so over their working lifetimes.Did you know the Labour partys first name was the "Nationalists".Did you know Keir Hardy was an ardent patriot who fought to keep the cheap foreign labourers out of our door?Or are you so thick it won't sink in.

111 – Whatnicknameisnotinusethen?
Hey, while I'm on one.I've just looked up the Tamar pub. Its near Leigh. Its practically in the middle of nowhere. Now what percentage of the populace makes up 16 yr old females who live within that bus stop catchment area?The cops cannot use the local database to do a couple of house calls for ID purposes?I smell a rat here. Or, as I said before, they haven't the wit to follow a piece of string.

112 – Thejones
Morning all (for ME anyhow!).I've just caught up on the thread and have just been to Wigan blog patriot, thank you kindly I will keep a close eye on that one too from now on (if only the discussion had been allowed I wouldn't have known, that’s what I meant by suppression of debate being counter-productive).With respect to 'socialist1', he is almost a lost cause.I will still debate with you S1 if you wish? and as per our previous interaction you do not have to talk about the contents of this website. Anything will be fine by me. I will not deliberately try to score points.As for the deleter, I now don't think it is this 'socialist1' in these pages. It is someone else in my view. To be fair to the dear he does try to have a good snap at the ankles as he goes along. Credit where it's due.In any event, to go to the beginning, the entire thread is now about the nature of 'censorship' and suppression of free expression....Surely the last thing the 'deleter' or whoever actually intended? The problem with 'ideology' is that it has reflexes (because it has 'truth'). Deviate from 'truth', you get a reflex.So for 'fact' looks like wiganblog then. I'll continue to engage on these pages but frankly, only for fun.I will continue to re-post this comment when it gets deleted. I will also indicate that it was posted previously with the number of the comment for perspective.

113 – Morgan DELETED
Nickname – that is a VERY interesting comment.
That’s where we had our BNP meeting Thursday night. I’m not letting any secrets out here because Myra Hindley’s (one of the Leigh Labour councilors) husband was downstairs in the bar gobbing off to anyone who would listen that the nazi skinheaded thick BNP fascist racist thugs were upstairs. He didn’t have a gang of hammer wielding Asian thugs to hand so he didn’t try to disrupt us. Sensible. Not very brave – but sensible.
And no, we didn’t have any 16 yr-old girls at our meeting (a very good meeting it was too, as described by Dr Mather on the wigan Patriot blog – much as I imagine the meetings of the very early Labour party were, when it was still a nationalist party whose leader, Keir Hardie, was “opposed to immigration as it tends to depress the wages of the working man”)
I suspect the police should be investigating the so-called “victim” with a possibility of charges for wasting police time.

114 – Morgan
Nickname" I smell a rat here. Or, as I said before, they haven't the wit to follow a piece of string."Actually, you said they couldn't follow a ROPE.Hahahaha.

115 – Socialist 1
ha ha ha ha you keep me amused

116 – celedrialjoy
Well it would seem that the deleter’s actions have been counter productive.All I wanted to do was read a story that had been put out about a fight between three girls! But of course once I saw the deleter had been at work again I couldn’t resist. But I did glean information about the Patriot website and I found it quite interesting, so thanks.

117 – celedrialjoy
S1; Perhaps if my comments had not all been deleted I would know why you are saying that I am telling porkie pies!!!!!!!! Although I can assure you I am not known for using fabrication to get my point across as a couple of low life local NEW-liabour councillors have found out in the past to their cost.

118 – ytrewq
Morning everyone.Casual observation directed to S1 in particular.I was always led to believe that the word Fascist had its origins in Italy and alluded to the fact that if like minded people joined with each other then their combined strength would exceed the sum of the individuals.Seems sensible to me.As for the oft repeated mantra, "workers united will never be defeated", sorry sunny jim, the mass ranks of united workers were conclusively defeated by Margaret Thatcher.

119 – thejones DELETED
To be absolutely fair to S1 I would say that, at least, IN HIS WAY, he does try to defend his position (although I’m damned if I know what the terms are) and he does seem to have a kind of ‘Robber’s Dog’ cunning for when he’s being baited, whereas the deleter, whoever they are, simply suppresses and tries to remove from the historical memory , regardless of the merits of the case. A far less forgivable process in my view.
Like this Mr Elliot: I have done a bit of research on him, and given that he is not beneath self-reporting on this forum, he is now showing a distinct lack of moral courage in not engaging on this occasion. I am prepared to hear the arguments Mr Elliot, and am most certainly willing to alter my position should the merits outweigh those of my own position, which would be clear if my comments hadn’t been deleted.
What can possibly be lost?
Here I stand.

120 – thejones
Ref S1To quote Wellington on eve of battle when he captures, 'bang to rights' a soldier looting who then tries to defend himself against being executed....He immediately promotes him on the grounds that there is always use for someone who tries to defend a defenceless position.Just thought I'd share.

121 – ytrewq DELETED
Thejones
Ref Mr Elliot. I can’t for the life of me be bothered doing any research into him. From comments posted three things spring to mind which may describe him:
1. Large mouth.
2. Long tongue
3. No b***s
I’m prepared to be persuade otherwise, so if anyone has anything positive to say about him, feel free to enlighten me.
I’m timing how long this post lasts.

122 – Leviticus
re-posted due to the anti-free speech brigade, PC James McCallion, based at Leigh Police Station, said:People cannot be allowed to get away with racism., so will he be taking steps to tackle the rcist black police association then? their constitution does not allow white people to be full members with full voting rights etc, and when you treat somebody less favourably because of their skin colour then that is racism isn't it? lets place the boot on the other foot, if 2 black lads/ girls had attacked a white lad/ girl would this be as rigourously investigated? i think not, i am suprised by the lack of comment from the former councillor for golbourne on this topic , i thought he would have been screaming from the rooftops about it

123 – thejones DELETED
Ytrewq
It may well last a while since it’s a bank holiday weekend. The last time I got into a good chinwag on this website the ENTIRE comment thread was removed (and even the fact there was one to begin with), but that was also at the start of a weekend and it lasted until Monday morning. Bizarrely enough, because of censorship on this comment thread yesterday, I discovered a website there (I’m many thousands of miles away), the “Wigan Patriot”, which had, in fact, recorded that comment thread and detailed the efforts of censorship at that time. It was rather good.

124 – thejones
just thought I'd share the complaint I sent to the editor of this fine journal.(It was in reference to the hammer attack).If this is all to be Stalinised anyway then what the hey.dear sirI have little doubt that you will know me from my contributions to the above article.I am not a political agitator of any kind nor a member of any party and lead a quiet life overall.I do not feel that the comment thread was in any way libelous or abusive in any way and seemed to be generating a reasonable tone 'politically'.I was also beginning to think that my contribution was even raising the 'bar' on what would be acceptable in your journal.This being the case can you please provide an explanation as to why the entire comment pages have been deleted (in an almost 1984 manner?)If you have some idea that this is to only prevent the dissemination of what you perceive to be an odious message and to protect the vulnerable (ME in this case perhaps?) then I can assure that it will only serve to reinforce my own perception of where the problem lies so thank you for clarifying that much for me at least.On a final note (I suppose) I really do want make very clear that it is a matter of indifference to me what a provincial paper feels is of import or not as this was my first ever 'foray' in this manner in a public forum (you may choose to believe that or not).I feel fairly sure it won't be my last.I would be grateful for a response that informs as to what it was that provoked the entire removal.Thank you kindly for your time.

125 – thejones
It wasn't

126 – sickoffitall
It seem's Mr "Stalin" has stopped me from posting comments as well !

127 – G.Chadwick
Morgan, do you think there is an ulterior motive by the reporter regarding this particular alleged "race hate incident? Especially as this report comes to our attention a week after it had supposedly happened and which interestingly coincides with reports coming out regarding Thursday evenings proceedings in Leigh, if you know what I mean?

128 – Morgan DELETED
Yes Gary, I do.
I think they are trying ti link BNP activity with “Race Hate” crime. We had a meeting right where, next day, this incident was reported to have taken place.
You know the sort of argument – it goes like this … the activities of the BNP stirred up hate in two immature young girls … they couldn’t help it … it’s the BNP’s fault … ban them.
That’s assuming the whole alleged incident wasn’t in fact a set-up by the leftards. Would be good to learn the histories of these three girls. Are they long-time friends (or rivals)? Does any of the three have any connection with the Labour party? Or any others of the people with an irrational hatred towards the BNP.
But it does look to me like some sort of set-up. Remember – Myra Hindley’s husband was downstairs in the bar spouting of to anyone and everyone about the nazi skinheaded BNP fascist racist knuckle-dragging bootboys being upstairs. And we already know that there are concerted efforts to deny us venues for meetings.
Where was our meting Thursday? Where was this offence reported to have taken place Friday?
I’m not normally given to conspiracy theories, but in this case …..

129 – Morgan
And it's not really the reporter's fault - after all, we know they don't do any investigating these days - they just write down what influential people tell them to write down. Copy press release word for word. Take wholesale copy/pastes from the web and write them as if it is their own work - as I pointed out on the "Veterans day in town" article a couple of days back (but was deleted for doing it).Reporters don't want to lose their jobs; they have mortgages or rent to pay same as anyone. So they just do as they're told. The important question is ... who does the telling?

130 – anthony wareing
his story has nothing to do with those 3 girls anymorealso-it tells us its ok to beat up the minorities as long as you keep your mouth shut, it only seems to be racist if you call them namesalso-about socialist1, he's just winding everyone up & will never listen to what anyone else thinks or says so just ignore him

131 – thejones
anthony wareingYour point may have merit and no, it is not acceptable to abuse or assault ANYONE (but I took the view right at the start, now deleted, that either the race of the perpetrators and victims should be revealed in EVERY case or NOT AT ALL).However, there are now grounds to doubt whether the story is about the three girls at all and if not then what is the motive? (and no, I am not now, nor ever have been a member, of the bnp and I'm not an activist of any sort etc etc) which then requires an ongoing debate as to the degree of honesty/moral courage exhibited by any so called free press, not just THIS one.I feel that most 'reasonable' people would not find this comment 'UNreasonable' including yourself, but would you like to take a wager on how long it will be permitted to remain on this comments page?. That should afford one at least an idea of whether to place any trust into forums such as these and into what they really represent. (The true agenda will be more subtle than first appears.)However, I am quite convinced that the ideology this media represents will find the honest and genuine expression of ideas wholly unacceptable and COMPLETELY remove all evidence that we even had this discussion. Please keep checking on this comment section in the days ahead and see what happens. Something I honestly thought Orwell wrote about as a fantasy only.Anyhow, I hope this is an acceptable response even if you disagree.By the way agree entirely about S1.I think there is more to him/her than appears and I will ignore all from that quarter from now on.

132 – Britishlady
131 thejones" By the way agree entirely about S1.I think there is more to him/her than appears and I will ignore all from that quarter from now on."I think many will agree with your above statement. He is also a TROLL on other threads.

133 – Leviticus
I find him rather amusing, like so many other lefties he can't debate with facts and reason so he just resorts to petty insults and name calling to stop any debate because that is all they can do. It just goes to show the way they have been brainwashed

134 – Anthony wareing
"a young woman can be abused and attacked JUST because of the colour of her skin".Is there any proof that this is true?If she was overweight & they mentioned this to her, would the attack have been size-ist (however you spell that) "JUST because of the size of her body"?I feel sorry for the 19 year old, because everyone (including me) seems to be on the side of the two 16 year olds, I don't know what went on so I can't really comment on the attack, maybe she was equally to blame, maybe she's 100% a victim, unfortunately the police & the media have decided to use her attack for their own ends which makes other people naturally take the opposite viewpoint, regardless of the actual events, like I said before its not about her anymore it's just politics.If it wasn't for George Orwell we'd be further along the road to big brother & the thought police than we are now, but we still have to be on our guard, & censorship is the one of their weapons.

135 – thejones DELETED
Repeat of deleted comment 123

136 – thejones
Repeat of deleted comment 119

137 – thejones
To my ignorant and untrained eye it would seem that the pattern in recent deletions indicate either Mr Elliot himself or someone who wishes to defend him (from what? - surely the position is 'unassailable')Now I am interested.You silly people, don't you realise that actions like this merely provoke?No, I suppose not.....

138 – Morgan
I'm going to adopt the tactic just described by Thejones as my response to the more serious of my comments that get deleted. If I'm deleted, I'll repost that comment with reference back to which comment it is. I can always do this because I screengrab every comment, and so have a permanent record.In comment 127 G.Chadwick asked me, by name, the following question:Morgan, do you think there is an ulterior motive by the reporter regarding this particular alleged "race hate incident? Especially as this report comes to our attention a week after it had supposedly happened and which interestingly coincides with reports coming out regarding Thursday evenings proceedings in Leigh, if you know what I mean?I replied, in comment 128, now deleted:Yes Gary, I do.I think they are trying to link BNP activity with "Race Hate Crime". We had a meeting right where, next day, this alleged 'offence' took place [ extra comment not in the original: as the alleged offence was a week before our meeting, the first in that location, but was only reported the morning after, I see this as confirmation of my view as expressed in this comment].You know the sort of argument - it goes like ... the activities of the BNP stirred up the hate in two immature young girls ... they couldn't help it ... it's the BNP's fault ... ban them [ no thought that our meeting there was a week AFTER the alleged offence, you'll note].That's assuming the whole alleged incident wasn't in fact a set-up by the leftards. Would be good to learn the histories of these three girls. Are they long-time friends [or rivals?]. does any one of the three have any connections with the Labour party - or any others of the people with an irrational hatred towards the BNP?But it does look to me like a set-up. Remember - Myrs Hindley's husband was downstairs in the bar spouting off to anyone and everyone about the nazi skinheaded nazi fascist racist knuckle-dragging bootboys being upstairs. And we already kno

139 – Morgan
Given the tactics that it has recently been discovered are being used by the Labour party against the Tories (see today's Times and News of the World), what on Earth can we expect Labour to be using against the BNP? This alleged bus incident might be only the beginning .. what will be next?Hammer attack, alleged racist incident they are apparently trying to link to the BNP, ... what next? Given the stories coming out of Downing Street today, wouldn't put anything at all past them.

140 – Morgan
Completion of comment no 138:And we already know there are concerted attempts to deny us venues to meet in. Where was our meeting Thursday? where was this alleged offence reported to have occurred Friday?I'm not normally given to conspiracy theories, but in this case ...

141 – Morgan
A race hate attack? Hmmmm - we've all been young haven't we. Don't teenage girls have spats? Don't they hold grudges (oh boy - do they ever)? Don't they lash out at each other - physically and verbally - and with the most stinging words they can think of at the time. And how much physical damage does a girlie hit do (I have felt it from my wife - they really don't know how to hit properly)? And what's it all usually over? Yup - boys.And all this has been conflated into a suggested race hate attack, apparently - on the face of it - as a way to attack the BNP. Unfortunately for Labour - the timings are all wrong when looked at closely.How much of your money is that constable being paid - and the "race hate" hierarchy he answers to? YOUR money remember.

142 – Britishlady DELETED
Labour is mobilizing at local level wherever there is a sign of heavy BNP activity. National funding has been provided for “Stop the BNP2 leaflets, and Labour uses a different slogan – “Fairness not Fear” rather than its national theme of “Winning the Fight for Britain’s Future”.
It is also linking up with anti-fascist groups such as Searchlight and sending anti-BNP battlebuses into areas targeted by the group.
So can we expect more of what happened in Leigh 13/03/2009 when Tony Ward was attacked by a gang of thugs hiding behind the title of SWP, Searchlight, etc – all funded and supported by this Labour government.?
Is this what this country has been reduced to? Government backed thugs bussed in like flying pickets to oppress the people and a legitimate, legal, political party, by violent means?
The full list of Searchlight and SWP supporters from all parties (including David Cameron) is listed on the BNP website – a frightening list of people opposed to democracy.
The people must use their vote before it is too late.

143 – thejones
Britishlady Indeed and in my case I really have never been (hitherto) a 'politically driven' individual BUT I have had a sense if 'unease' in the back of my mind for many years without being able to articulate this unease.Then, having had enough of the U.K. for a number of reasons I left and at this point have no intention of ever returning. To get to my point, having been away for a few years I returned and was quite stunned at the level of change that I saw and was quite frightened for the longer term (I would add that the July 7 bombers was a turning point for me ) given, in my own case, that almost my entire family live in Britain (going back to approximately the ice-age!).I even saw fit to resolve to resist the change I mention above as best I could.The only political party that seems to address the concerns I allude to ARE the BNP. At this point I need to add that I am not, in any way, a 'radical' and am most certainly not a thug or knuckle-dragger, in fact, I couldn't be more diametrically evolved and have discovered very very many who are similar and I HAVE made a point of making myself aware of what’s going on.This being the case the responses that I see from various quarters to what is a wholly legal political party is, at best, amusing and at worst dangerous in principle.(and in FACT when hammers are used).There are, undoubtedly, very worrying forces at work in the U.K. and I truly don't see it ending peacefully.So to second your point it indeed is more important for people to vote now than in recent decades because time really is getting short at this point.You do realise don't you Britishlady that this entire comment thread will be 'expunged' from the record as soon as this journals editorial staff get back to work? One of those disturbing features I've noted.I will have a copy of this comment when posted and will re-post when someone deletes.

144 – Leviticus
thanks britishlady, we all know about the so called 'respectable' searchlight organisation and when you turn the spotlight onto the searchlight they aren't as respectable as they are purported to be no doubt the anti free speech brigade will delete this but if anybody is in any doubt they should look here :www.searchlightexposed.com

145 – Britishlady DELETED
I would ask why so many “Race Attacks” get so much press coverage yet others receive practically none, an example being the murder of Kris Donald. I bet 90% of you have never heard of this young man – it never got much publicity.
Google – Kris Donald – and read about just one of hundreds of ignored murders.
The BNP is labeled “Far Right” because it tells the truth, and the powers-that-be do not want the truth told.
Make your own mind up.

146 – Dave Bloom DELETED
I’ve just been looking on Wikipedia about this Searchlight magazine and its editor, Gerry Gable and I am appaled by what I have found out. The man is not only a proven liar, but a convicted criminal as well, and it appears the same can be said for the majority of those who work for his organization. So where they get the title “respectable” from the Lord only knows, because on the face of it they are anything but.

147 – Leviticus
thejones 'You do realise don't you Britishlady that this entire comment thread will be 'expunged' from the record as soon as this journals editorial staff get back to work? One of those disturbing features I've noted.'One can almost see them now, in the office saying 'oh my god they are speaking the truth, quick delete all comments because we cannot allow it to happen' because that is effectively what they are doing when they delete all posts and close the debate because they don't agree with what is being said. It makes you wonder what problem they have with the truth and freedom of speech

148 – thejones
Britishlady Kriss Donald indeed.The reading of the events are too horrific too contemplate for any lenght of time.A clear example of a race hate crime....BURIED.....Stephen Laurence. Tragic yes. To be condemned yes. Perpetrators not brought to satisfactory justice, unfortunately not. But to elevate the case to one of sainthood and then do a Witchfinder General on almost every institution of state whilst ignoring the horror of Kriss Donald....very wrong.The balance sheet has yet to be put right.dave bloomFrom what I can gather 'Searchlight' are just part of this game I'm beginning to understand called politics. I'm sure Niccolo Machiavelli would find it all unexceptional.leviticusIndeed, would be nice to have a camera on the wall in the office (mind you, as Stalinist as they are it's perfectly possible that they DO just to keep an eye on the staff!?)For the record the editor has my full name, address phone number, mobile and landline and fax number(it's my landline) to discuss my breach of journalistic protocol in his rag and has had a number of weeks to contact me but for some undefined reason has chosen not to.Make yourself familiar with Professor Noam Chomsky'They will either ignore you, shoot you or assassinate your character (common one that, just ask messrs Cameron and Osborne)'The first seems to be firmly in operation with commentators here.p.s. behold the marvel that is 'free speech' in approx 24-36 hrs time as all this disappears.... . . . . .

149 – sickoffitall
Free speech disappeared along with freedom of thought etc etc etc etc etc etc etc when the "NuLiabour" regime came to power and made it a crime to be patriotic to your country (ie Britain), the very word "Patriotism" sends the hand wringing Leftie "Traitor's" in Troughminster and its blind followers into a wild frenzy, and will make every effort possible to stifle anything that goes against the Mantra of "Nuliabour"!Anyone who is the slightest Patriotic must be SILENCED at any cost.

150 – ytrewq
They won't shut me up.

151 - Britishlady DELETED
Searchlight is gross. Take a look at SWP communist hypocrite Weyman Bennet.
Weyman Bennet, joint national secretary of UAF, recently wrote an article on the BNP’s good chance of success at the European Elections in June. Bennet declared: “The British National Party is aiming to win seats in the European parliament in June. The Nazis believe they have the wind in their sails following the walkouts at the Lindsey oil refinery”
Typically, the article is full of smears, for example making the claim that party chairman Nick Griffin has been a member of “Nazi organizations for three decades”. If they consider the BNP as such, then maybe a political lieracy course would be beneficial.
Bennet also describes the BNP as “Nazis” in eight out of the eighteen paragraphs, clearly a big fan of the Big Lie propaganda technique, which generally involves telling a very big lie, very often, until it is believed.
Nearly all the parties of various communist leanings will be aiming to stem the electorate’s tide of anger over the last six decades of national decline under the “mainstream” parties.
The double hypocrisy of the far left is startling: they do not even believe in democracy, admitting themselves that their goal of international socialism (and communism) cannot be achieved at the ballot box. For the time being they are content to fight a party that isn’t responsible for any of the mess we’re in, and the only party that offers any meaningful alternative.
In January, during the latest Israel Gaza conflict, Weekly Worker reported that Bennet was overheard saying: Jews “ should go back to where they came from … New York or wherever”.
Members of his far Left Socialist Workers Party were also chanting “We are Hezbollah” when protesting over Israel’s retaliation against the terrorist group in 2006.
It is indeed very strange that prominent members of the hardcore Left opposes virtually everything Israel does yet label the BNP as Nazis.

152 – Britishlady DELETED
The BNP has never held a protest against Israel defending its people and land. Maybe people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
It just shows what a cancer to this country these outfits are.

153 – Morgan DELETED
Britishlady – and everyone:
Imagine if it was BNPers caught doing this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169642/fourteen-council-staff-suspended-circulating-anti-semitic-joke-email.html

154 – Socialist 1
The workers united will never be defeated

155 – Lomra Greener
Let me explain the definition of socialism to you.Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under socialism, it's the other way round.Now get your self all excited while you work that out.

156 – dave bloom
I see I fell victim to the red pen deleter. I looked up Searchlight magazine in Wikipedia and was appalled by what I read about it and its editor Gerry Gable (who has a page of his own) this man is a convicted criminal and a proven liar - he cost the BBC over £1 million in libel costs after they published his lies in good faith. How on earth anybody can call this organisation 'respectable' the Lord only knows, it appears most of the people who work for this outfit are convicts as well – disgusting

157 – Lomra Greener
Dave, just followed your example and looked at searchlight and the Wikipedia write up on Gerry Gable. Is communism acceptable when other political views are not?This is indeed the attitude followed by Joe Stalin.

158 – Socialist 1
i see nazis have appeared yet again

159 – Lomra Greener
S1, you call yourself a socialist, NAZI is a contraction of national socialist (as spelled in German).I see you really are a socialist, as defined above and by the failed USSR. Your attitude seems to be ‘you can have any opinion you want, or say what you want, so long as it is exactly what I want it to be’.

160 – Leviticus
lomra rener, you should ignore 'socialist 1' his comments display his lack of educational skills - he like most of the loony left cannot debate with facts and reason so resort to petty insults and name calling in order to stifle any reasoned debate, and even go to the lengths of deleting anything they don't agree with,like true communist dictators

161 – Leviticus
oops sorry lomra greener

162 – Socialist 1
What is the matter. Do you not like the word Nazi? Perhaps Scum should be attached to it?

163 – celedrialjoy
The thing that is really scary is the number of high ranking politicians who back these thugs David Cameron for one. If the leader of one of the main political parties has put his name to backing these criminals just how far are the main parties prepared to go to protect their places at the trough.

164 – Morgan
Come on then S1 - educate us.Define 'Nazi'.Translated from the original German it comes out as "National Socialist German Workers Party". But what do YOU mean by it?

165 – Leviticus
try putting your point across with facts and reason instead of just using cheap insults and then people might listen to you.

166 – Leviticus
actually morgan, i may be sticking my neck out here but i have a feeling 'socialist 1' is the pen name of our 'old friend' elliot who got his backside well and truly kicked the last time he dared to post his outrageous slurs against the people of this town on here.

167 – sickoffitall
I'm afraid the old mantra of name calling ie "Nazi" has worn very thin with the people of Britain, take a look at the latest media headlines and listen to the National news on tv and radio, the Harpies in power have done enough of that to make the population sit up and realise that name calling / spin / lies and treachery are the only thing these clowns have left in their armoury, NOTHING they say or do now will have any affect whatsoever to make the populous change their minds to how slippery and slimy these overpaid self serving parasites in "Troughminster" will go to cling on to their jobs, to be quite honest, firing off the "Nazi" word non stop at someone only shows that it's the desperation that certain people will go to (ie the Liarbour party etc) knowing they are "Washed up".

168- Socialist 1
I think NAZI SCUM is enough said. If the hat fits...

169 – Morgan DELETED
I’ve had the same thought for a while now. Nothing concrete, but a few signs:
The level of literacy is about the same
The deletions on Friday started very shortly after I emailed Elliot to let him know about the conversation her, in the hope of drawing him in.
Just about all mention of Elliot gets deleted no matter how innocuous
Oh, and do note that the top three comments on the previous page were deleted all at once, then lo and behold, S1 appears. You have to be at a particularly spectacular level of cretinicity to all but sign your own vandalism.
So deletions first start when Elliot finds out what’s happening. Today deletions start when S1 appears. References to Elliot are invariably deleted.
Seems pretty open and shut to me.

170 – Morgan
All well and good S1, but if we don't know what Nazi means you may as well be shouting Squibbledork Scum at us for all the sense it makes. What does it MEAN? Do explain to stupid unknowing us.

171 – sickoffitall
As i said above.....Signs of desperation setting in !

172 – Morgan
We ignoramuses haven't had the privelege of your extensive in-depth Higher Education in political philosophy. So please, tell us: what exactly does Nazi mean?

173 – Morgan
You there S1? We are waiting here with bated breath for you to explain to us your insights and understanding of the concept of Nazi (Scum).You there S1? S1? Come in S1.

174 – Socialist 1
Hows sunny Leigh Mr Henry?

175 – Morgan
Who's Mr Henry?

176 – Morgan
If you mean me, S1 ... then I wouldn't know - I live in Worsley Mesnes.

177 – Socialist 1
ha ha lol

178 – Socialist 1
your a funny old sparra

179 – Morgan
Anyway, let's get back on topic shall we?Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?The definition of a "race hate crime" is that the victim, or someone else, perceives it to be racist. Well I for one perceive the Leigh hammer attack to be racist. By definition that makes it racist - Asian on White.

180 – Socialist 1
Is that near the rail station?

181 – sickoffitall
Correct, but we are not allowed to comment on ANYTHING "Non White" WHY ???

182 – Morgan
Is what near the railway staion? Which railway station?Anyhow - what is a Nazi?

183 – sickoffitall
This was why this debate started.

184 – Socialist 1
Wigan? i think i heard the name Mes Nes when i was in the pub opposite a while ago.

185 – Morgan
SickofitallThat is a big big question. Perhaps Ell ...er ... S1 might care to answer it?

186 – Morgan
????? S1 ... are you ... er ... mentally disturbed?

187 – Socialist 1
lol i am rolling over in hysterics. How the leafleting going?

188 – sickoffitall
Will I now be called "Nazi scum" purely because i have asked a legitimate question that i'm SURE lot's of reader's to this site are still wanting to know?

189 – Morgan
What's a Nazi?

190 – Socialist 1
you would not have people who are 'mentally disturbed' in a NAZI SCUM society would you?

191 – Morgan
We wouldn't know because we haven't been told yet what Nazi Scum means. You seem to think you know an awful lot about it. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

192 – Socialist 1
As i said if the hat fits...ANYWAY hows the leafleting going?

193 – Morgan
Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?

194 – sickoffitall
Morgan, i'm afraid that the answer to that question (193) will never be allowed to be published.

195 – Morgan
According to Lancaster Unity (UAF) it's you who has a major leafleting task ahead of you. And never mind the leaflets - 50,000 actual newspapers in Wigan alone. Have you the slightest idea how big a job that is going to be?Anyhow, because unlike our UAF/SWP etc opponents (you?), the BNP actually puts people forward for election, the leafleting is a little different. The post office will be delivering some 29 million BNP leaflets to every house in Britain. For free.For free. Do you like that S1?

196 – Socialist 1
i will ask again, hows the NAZI SCUM leafleting going?

197 – Socialist 1
As i said if the hat fits. At last you show who you are. YUK!

198 – Socialist 1
I have just thrown my evening meal up!

199 – Morgan
S1 - I have never made any secret of my connection to the BNP.Nothing to be ashamed of in it you see.

200 – Socialist 1
I am sure the Wigan people will rally around. They are intelligent people up there. They always come out for us.
---------------------------------------------------
Damn!! I missed a trick there. Read that again. Socialist 1 is NOT a Wiganer, and not even a Northerner. “ … up there …” – so he comes in from down south and disrupts our debate here in Wigan. Now that I have a valid reason for doing so, I’m going to email the editor on Monday and see if I can’t get this little troll banned from commenting and banned from deleting. It isn’t just this thread – he pops up on loads of threads and disrupts. Southerners interfering in Northern concerns. So going back over these threads in detail is useful after all – learned new hard information there. Wonder how many other local newspapers he does it to? Is he paid by someone – a Union, Labour party – whatever – to do this as a full-time job: disrupt inconvenient comment threads wherever he finds them? Anyone out there with the on-line investigatory skills to find out? If so – please get cracking on it. The Johnston Press is a big organization and has local newspapers all over the country – register for commenting in one and you are registered for commenting (and deleting) in all. I already know this from experience of commenting in other local papers belonging to Johnston. I know where to get a list of all of the group’s papers … Anyone care to take the job on? I’ve a few ideas how to get started. Email me. I don’t have the time to get into it right now, with the June election coming up – lots to do. I would guess that if he is doing this systematically across the group, then any one editor can remove his rights from right across the network – including stopping him re-registering with a new throwaway Hotmail account and username. Yes – I know that one – I’ve had five different accounts and usernames with the Guardian: I keep getting banned. Wonder why hahahahaha?
--------------------------------------------------------------
201 – Socialist 1
Nothing to be ashamed of? HA HA Ha. NAZI SCUM make decent people puke!

202 – Morgan
S1 - comment 198 ... now eat it up again like the good doggie you are.

203 – Socialist 1
So what would you do with people who are mentally ill? you did not answer that?

204 – Britishlady
Labour is mobilising at local level wherever there is a sign of heavy BNP activity. National funding has been provided for "Stop the BNP" leaflets, and Labour uses a different slogan – "fairness not fear" – rather than its national theme of "winning the fight for Britain's future". It is also linking up with anti-fascist groups such as Searchlight and sending anti-BNP battlebuses into areas targeted by the group. So can we expect more of what happened in Leigh 13\03\2009 when Tony Ward was attacked by a gang of Thugs hideing behind the title of SWP, Searchlight etc, all funded and supported by this Labour Government.Is this what this Country has been reduced to ?Government backed thugs bussed in like flying pickets to oppress the people and a legitimate legal Political Party, by violant means. The full list of SWP and Searchlight supporters from All partys ( including David Camereron )is listed on the BNP website - a frightening list, of people opposed to Democracy.The people must use their vote before it is too late.Now await the TROLLS reply

205 – Morgan
S1Was I Nazi Scum for all those years when I was a member of the Labour party?Did I just magically become one when I left? Or did I magically become one when I joined the BNP?Trying to work out what Nazi Scum is.Because I think I'm the same bloke as I was at those times.

206 – Morgan
S1I'd have them cared for by people like my brother - a Psychiatrist.Not pretty much abandoned as they are now. I have HIS word for that - not the spin put out by lying Labour politicians.

207 – Socialist 1
annihilation is that the word you are looking for?

208 – Morgan
That's your idea S1, not mine.

209 – Socialist 1
Decent people know what you are about. You crawl from under your stones and blame others. it has happened throughout history. You spy a chance to spread your vileness discrimination. As i said in a past post.BE GONE!!!!!

210 – Morgan
Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?S1?

211 – Morgan
We will be gone S1 - in June to Brussels, and six-seven years from now, to Downing Street.

212 – Socialist 1
And first they came for the communists and i didnt speak up because i was not a communist, then they came for the trade unionists and i did not speak up because i was not a trade unionist, then they came for the jews and i did not speak up because i was not a jew, etc etc. workers will allways stick together to fight NAZI SCUM.

213 – Britishlady
DO not feed the Troll" An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion "Otherwise known as Red Pen Man on this site.

214 – Socialist 1
wheres your back shirt?

215 – Morgan
National SOCIALIST German WORKERS PARTY.

216 – Morgan
Yes, I know BritishLady - but I've been enjoying it. But ok, no more until and unless he starts engaging in proper debate.

217 – Socialist 1
ha ha thats a bit rich bl! this from a party that wants to annihilate people,has politics of hate,john laidlaw who went on a shooting spree on the underground and wanted to kill black people? ring any bells?

218 – sickoffitall
But, Would it still be possible to have the answer to question (210)?

219 – Socialist 1
robert Cottage who was 3 times bnp candidate, jailed in 2007 for stockpiling chemicals,bomb making equipment and a rocket launcher?

220 – Britishlady
First They Came - Pastor Martin NiemollerFirst they came for the CommunistsAnd I did not speak out Because I was not a CommunistFirst they came for the SocialistAnd I did not speak out Because I was not a SocialistFirst they came for the trade unionistsAnd I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionistFirst they came for the JewsAnd I did not speak out Because I was not a JewThen they came for meAnd there was no one leftTo speak out for meWhen I posted the above, when our meeting was banned Red Pen Man could not leave this poem upHe deleted it !Now he uses it !!!

221 – Socialist 1
David Copeland who NAIL BOMBED a London pub and KILLED 3 people?

222 – Britishlady
WHY WHY WHYWhy is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?TOO difficult to answer ?or do you have none.....

223 – Morgan
Lidlaw + CottageTotal Deaths - ZeroInjured - three.Asian underground/bus bombers on 7/7/05Total deaths - 52Injured - several hundred.

224 – sickoffitall
ony Bliar / Gordon Brown 1997 - 2009.....Million's of honest decent hardworking men,women and children.....live's ruined.

225 – Morgan
Too imprecise there - MUSLIM underground/bus bombers

226 – Socialist 1
NAZI NICK GRIFFIN CONVICTED of incitement to racial hatred for denying the holocaust.

227 – Socialist 1
BNP LEADER NAZI SCUM NICK GRIFFIN, ring any bells?

228 – Socialist 1
morgan, british lady have your DNA tested and give us all a laugh

229 – Socialist 1
i will have to go now to watch the chelsea game. you are getting tiresome.

230 – Morgan
Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?Any answers?

231 – sickoffitall
Obviously it seem's I (and probably dozens of other's) will never get the answer to question "230"

232 – sickoffitall
So we shall all have to come to our own conclusions.

233 – Britishlady
Nick Griffin was found NOT GUILTY, by 12 members of the Jury ( The British Public )"What has just happened shows Tony Blair and the government toadies at the BBC that they can take our taxes but they cannot take our hearts, they cannot take our tongues and they cannot take our freedom," he told his supporters

234 – Socialist 1
oh i forgot. the BNP gets money from neo NAZI hate music and fundraising and you have links with combat 18 the white supremacist violence group.

235 – Britishlady
sickoffitallSpot onHis type are the enemy within - SWP and SearchlightJust bullies used by this Government to keep us down.Cannot/will not unable to debate without resulting to inane and personal abuse,readers will see his type for the cause he represents,visit their sites and see REAL HATRED.It will shock you.

236 – Britishlady
TO THE TROLL Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?Any answers?

237 – Morgan
Well that's a new one - so MUSIC is Nazi now? How about landscape paintings? Can they be Nazi?And Combat 18 is nothing but a legend in its own and S1's minds.

238 – Morgan
Has S1 actually got a mind? Or is it just a spur off some collective hive mind?

239 – Britishlady
Congratulations to Gerry and Sonia Gable and their Searchlight organisation - they have been awarded the golden goose that lays the golden egg. Labour Party and trade union funds will be channeled into their Stop the BNP front in the run-up to the local and European elections in June, while the SWP- run Unite Against Fascism (UAF) will have to be satisfied with any crumbs from their table.

240 – Britishlady
MorganThanks for the update on the deleted post from this thread on Wigan Patriot,Well done.

241 – Britishlady
Trolls cannot think or reason. As S1 proves.They are mass produced clones !Probably made in China

242 – Morgan
I've got to do the whole conversation yet - I wanted to do it today - but then this kicked off again. Unfinished business - but at least you now know the origins of this thread, so you have an idea why all the deletions started, and why it changed into a thread about censorship and politics.I've got nearly all of it grabbed (missed some while I was typing up the early deleted comments for the blog).I've got to learn to resist the temptation to lay into the troll.

243 – Britishlady
If his type was not so dangerous to our Land and Culture, which they are intent of destroying, he would be amusing !

244 – Morgan
I want to give some credit to the editorial team on Wigan Today.I started today expecting the entire thread to be removed as if it never existed, and have been pleasantly surprised. Thank you Mr Editoe sir - I'll still be blogging this because of all the user-deletions ... but I wont be taking a poke at you.Incidentally Mr Editor, I have an extremely interesting FoI request in with the council. Got an email from the Legal Department today saying the response would be with me by 8th May. Assuming it's productive, you might want to get a reporter reading us for a couple of days after that. May be a story in it for you.Then again, it may turn out to be a damp squib. I actually would prefer this latter.

245 – celedrialjoy
Just been catching up on the comments, so far S1 is on a massive losing streak in getting his point across, actually its hard to see through his manic posts to see what his point is! From what I can make out anyone who disagrees with anything he says is a racist/nazi!!!!Well correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was the nazis that did not allow free speech or debate. Come on S1, you cannot go around saying that an attack on a coloured girl by a white girl IS racist, and an attack on four white men by 30+ Asians in Leigh isn’t!If you are going to label people racists then at least start from an even point of view.

246 – Morgan
Leviticus wrote (comment 166)"Actually Morgan, I may be sticking my neck out here but I have a feeling 'Socialist1' is the pen name of our 'old friend' Elliot who got his backside well and truly kicked the last time he dared to post his outrgeous slurs against the people of this town on here."I (Morgan) replied (comment 169)"I've had that same thought for a while now. Nothing concrete, but a few signs:The level of literacy is about the sameThe deletions last Friday started very shortly after I emailed elliot on Friday to let him know about the conversation here in the hope of drawing him in.Just about all mention of Elliot gets deleted no matter how inoccuous.Oh, and do note that the top three comments on the previous page were deleted all at once, then lo and behold, S1 appears. You have to be at a particularly spectacular level of cretinicity to all but sign your own vandalism.So deletions first start when Elliot finds out what's happening. Today deletions start when S1 appears. References to Elliot are invariably deleted.Seems open and shut to me."And guess what - my comment 169 was deleted. Interesting, or what? Elliot as S1? Looks like it doesn't it. Wonder if Elliot Brown attended university? Wonder if it was Reading University? (I have reasons from earlier in this thread for that question)I'm off to do some rooting around. I wonder?
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This was a wild goose chase – I think it’s pretty well established now that S1 is down South somewhere, whereas we know Elliot is here in Wigan. Established the rough location (South) of S1 earlier on through a slip of his tongue.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
247 – Socialist 1
as i said your NAZI leader was convicted of inciting racial hatred. he also said "when the crunch comes power is the product of force and will, not of rationale debate. So as i said earlier he is NAZI SCUM, you follow him...you see where this is going? do you deny the holocaust? british shady and captain morgan? or do you follow your NAZI leader?

248 – Socialist 1
all this thinking morgan its not good for you. your paranoia is scary, and you want to be in power soon?, your laughable. be gone!
--------------------------------------------------------
Note it’s ME he wants gone – it’s always me he says that to. I think I trouble him in the same way I trouble Franzen (and I have good reason, which I can’t divulge here without losing an advantage I have, for knowing I trouble Franzen. Basically, if he finds out I lose that advantage, and someone else probably loses her neck). And Franzen is nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is. I have a weakness I’m aware of – he has that same weakness but he’s NOT aware of it – he’s not honest or knowledgable enough for that.

And here’s a blunt honest assessment – S1 is far far cleverer than we give him credit for … well, he at least has a Robber’s Dog cunning anyway, as thejones put it earlier, which can be even more effective for reasons I wont divulge to avoid giving him an advantage … and he has quite clearly won this entire exchange – the entire thread. Lost every battle, but quite categorically won the war. It is painful for me to say that – but if our Party’s claim to blunt honesty is to be anything more than a sharp soundbite, we have to apply it to ourselves individually too. I consider I/we lost this one and we have lessons to learn for future comment wars, of which there will undoubtedly be many, and in many places, not just Wigan Today. Politics isn’t ending any time soon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
249 – Morgan
S1The name Elliot Brown is coming up in some strange places. I don't think I'll pursue it. Not yet anyway.I wondered why Elliot was so fanatical about "Hate Crime".Still, it may not be our Elliot - it's not exactly a rare name is it.

250 – Morgan
And apparently, bus stops and telephone boxes are hot spots for racist incidents.How much do Wigan Council Tax payers pay Elliot?

251 – Socialist 1
so you dont deny it then captain? thought not

252 – Morgan
Deny what?

253 – Socialist 1
im..... waiting do you deny the holocaust? like your leader?

254 DELETED
Comment deleted before I could grab it

255 – Socialist 1
NAZI leader that is

256 – Morgan
Stop being so stupid you silly little man.

257 – Socialist 1
as i thought, tell you what, i dont really want anymore contact with nazi scum, your views are vile, i will come on here and keep giving the facts out to decent people, as i have said before, BE GONE you make me puke!!!

258 – Morgan DELETED
You make as much sense as if I asked you if you still fondle little girls – and do you deny it? S1, you are an intellectual pygmy. Can get better debate than this with a two year-old.

259
Deleted before I could grab it

260 – Socialist 1
you also presume im a man, your sexist too! yuk!

261 – Socialist 1
sounds like you had 2nd thoughts and deleted your own comment. what vile you spout

262 – Morgan
Oh S1 - I'd never accuse you of being a MAN!

263 – Morgan
The deleted comment was by Thejones - I have it screengrabbed.

264 – Morgan
Anyway S1 - I have to ignore you from now on - can make no progress debating with you. Because you are not interested in doing anything other than calling names - and I left the school playground over 40 years ago.

265 – Socialist 1
your paranoia needs sorting or you own party may not want you with mental health issues. you know what their views on people like this are.

266 – Morgan
You know - I just may ask for a psychiatric report on this entire conversation (I have virtually all of it grabbed), and ask which of the two of us has, on the face of things, mental health issues.Personally, I suspect you are already under the supervision of a mental health professional. Obsessional would be one word I'd expect to be told of you.

267 – Socialist 1
follower of an holocaust denier who spouts vile i would suggest for you

268 – Morgan
" follower of an holocaust denier who spouts vile", even if it was true, isn't a clinical condition.

269 – Leviticus
post 257 socialist1,14/04/2009 22:31:53 as i thought, tell you what, i dont really want anymore contact with nazi scum, your views are vile, i will come on here and keep giving the facts out to decent people, as i have said before, BE GONE you make me puke!!!socialist 1 or should i call you elliot?what facts are they? all i can see coming from you is puerile insults and no attempt to debate anything with facts, is that because your noo labour paymasters have forbidden you to comment after your outrageous 'inbred' slurs about the people of this town?

270 – sickoffitall
WHY is it, nobody can have the answer to question "210" ?WHY ????????Could it possibly be.... the truth may emerge ?

271 – celedrialjoy
It was reported in the Daily Mail, that the LIB/LAB/TORY, pact have backed battle buses to send to places that are showing a rise in support for the right. I think Sickoffitall the veil is beginning to slip from main stream politics. Since reading the comments posted over the last few months on these pages I have noticed that not one person has been able to justify the attack on the four men in Leigh, there has been plenty of mudslinging and infantile name calling, also every time any mention of other racist acts against white people are mentioned (Elliot Brown race hate coordinator for Wigan) commenting that Wiganers were inbreds and that our fathers took it as a right to de-flower their daughters, These posts are also deleted. So from this I have to assume that the powers that be do not want us to speak about these things in a public forum because as you say the truth may just emerge. Elliot Brown still works for Wigan council so they MUST endorse what he had to say.

272 – sickoffitall
Celedraljoy, Thank you for the reply (before it get's deleted), That is what i and many other reader's (and possibly even hard core Labour voter's) suspected, If that is the case then the people of Wigan borough who pay into this Labour run council have a right to know!If no-one from the council has the honesty or integrity to answer the question (210) then question's MUST be asked and replies given publicly! (After all, we are the one's paying for their lavish lifestyle's)If not it will just show what contempt and little value they hold over the people of this borough.That question should be asked to EVERY candidate that call's canvassing at the next election.

273 – Lomra Greener
I should like to thank S1 for his/her/it's extremely limited comments, it just shows that birth control can be a real asset in some cases.

274 – Socialist 1
you sound like a real NAZI lomra greener

275 – Morgan
S1 is not a human being - it's a computer program programmed with certain key words. Then it reponds to other comments with certain pre-programmed phrases, returning some words from the phrase it's responding to.This is why we've never been able to get any sense out of the damned thing. I'm kicking myself for not noticing sooner, because I've long been aware of the existence of these programs.Own up - which university is conducting the experiment?Experiment over. Ignore.

276 – Morgan
Here's what I mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

277 – Britishlady
Nick Griffin was found NOT GUILTY, by 12 members of the Jury ( The British Public )"What has just happened shows Tony Blair and the government toadies at the BBC that they can take our taxes but they cannot take our hearts, they cannot take our tongues and they cannot take our freedom," he told his supporters.

278 – Lomra Greener
Morgan,Are you sure that S1 is a computer program? I thought the move was towards artificial intelligence. Chalk it up to another government IT failure.

279 – Britishlady
The Troll, S1, seems obsessed with Nazis and DNA - why?Elliot Brown race hate co-ordinator for Wigan commented, that Wiganers were in-breds and that our fathers took it as a right to de-flower their daughtersand Wiganers were imbeciles, and Wigan needed FRESH BLOOD in the town. Wiganers are Raceist, in his opinion.Elliot Brown still works for Wigan council - HOW ?Also the poor spelling and infantile name calling are identical.How much is his salery - I'm sure Morgan will enquire and get a figure for us, it is our Council Tax paying for this CLONE.

280 – Morgan
BL His department 'consumed' some £30K a year before last.I can feel a FoI request coming on. Nah - no point - they'll only say they can't distinguish the amout to his department from amongst all the social spending in that area - not all of which goes through his department.Still, I'll give it a try - trouble is it'll be 20 days before I get a reply so this conversation will be forgotten by then. We'll all remember Elliot though, wont we :)

281 – Morgan
No Lomra, I'm not completely certain - but that's what it's behaving like, so no great loss in treating it as such - and totally ignoring it.

282 – Lomra Greener
I agree Morgan. If I ever need a brain transplant, I want S!'s - it's never been used.Think I'll ignore him/her/it from now on

283 – Socialist 1
dosent take much to wind up a NAZI.

284 – Leviticus
are there any German National Socialists posting on here? tell us socialist1, you fit the last part of the definition - socialist but are you German by any chance?

285 – Socialist 1
as i said it does not take much to wind up a NAZI

286 – Leviticus
Why socialist1 who do you THINK you are winding anyone up? Most people can see straight through you, and know exactly what (and who) you are, and aren't the slightest bit bothered by your baiting. The fact is you can't put your point across with facts and reason (like most of the loony left) so you have to resort to puerile insults to divert attention from the subject.

287 – Socialist 1
But NAZI SCUM sums it up sooooooo perfectly

288 – Socialist 1
Have you lot not got a meeting to go to tonight? well i never.

289 – Dave Bloom
Actually socialist1, I heard that there is a lawful political meeting scheduled for tomorrow night in Goose Green, if you would care to come along - who knows you may learn something !

290 – Socialist 1
and what party is that?

291 – Socialist 1
you not telling? well well

292 – Morgan DELETED
Are these people capable of ever learning? All deleted posts from the past few pages have said the same thing. This constant re-posting is because this is a freedom of speech issue: not my freedom to speak, but others' to listen.
This is American - but decribes exactly what's happening here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s
... as S1 goes rooting through its toolbox for a suitable accessory to wear/carry to a political meeting ... analyse this picture. Carefully note the numbers accompanying each date, and read in chronological order (sorry about the multi-syllable words) and think of the future.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oOZT0MnFY50/SeV-fhlG8MI/AAAAAAAAAzY/ovSeNnwPpAE/s1600-h/weyman-vote.jpg
Now posted on the Wigan Patriot blog - with conventional graphs of the same data.
http://www.wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/
People notice you know - it's not us that wants to stop ordinary folk reading all points of view so they can make their own minds up - it's the leftards that do that. People then want all the more to know what WE are saying. They already know what YOU are saying because they've been getting nothing else for years. Forbidden fruit always tastes sweeter
Had you left the original post in place it would now be lost in the comment back-pages. By playing these games all you are doing is keeping it up front, which suits me - more people get to read it. That's the trouble with people like you: you are so ideologically hidebound that you don't think, you only feel (hate). Just not good enough in the modern world. If you want to win, you have to actually argue your point. You prefer censorship - whether with a keyboard or a hammer - all the same to you.
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That is not an exact rendition of comment 292. That’s because I had decided that I would re-post every deleted comment. I very soon learned that if a comment is exactly identical to a previous comment then the server filters pick up on it and class it as spam, and so block it. So to get the comment in again you have to make some small change or other for it to be accepted. But a couple of comments from now you will see the start of a marathon session of the deleter taking this comment down, and me immediately putting it back up again – but with a slight change each time. A lot – some 49 – of changes happened before reaching this exact wording, so it’s not quite the original. I do have all the original screen grabs, comment by comment – but I don’t think you want to see the same thing 49 times. It all starts a couple of comments from now – and I won that particular battle of attrition. He gave up taking them down before I gave up re-posting them. 3 hours around midnight one night, then continued the following afternoon. I got it off to a fine art – it takes six-seven minutes to remove a comment, but I could get it back up in 15 seconds once I’d done it a couple of times. So, six to seven minutes up, 15 seconds down. Advantage to me. It starts soon.
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293 – Socialist 1
the futures RED

294 – Socialist 1
morgan you make me laugh. you believe the drivel you spout to the point of obsession. I think you need to see your brother for some tablets!
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The following comments were copies of 292 above – I put ‘em up, he took ‘em down, I put ‘em back up again – for several hours.
295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313. 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319. 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, at this point, a little extra conversation joined in, with me re-posting the above at various points interspersed in that conversation – ALL DELETED
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345 – dave bloom
One hopes that S1 isn’t coming to the meeting I am going to this evening, or his hammer wielding cronies either

346 DELETED
Deleted as part of the above sequence

347 – Socialist 1
wheres this meeting then dave? what time?

348 DELETED
Deleted as part of the above sequence

349 – Socialist 1
Tiocfaidh ar la!

350 – Morgan
Err - S1, according to the numbers OURS will, not yours. You've had yours and made a right mess of it.

351 DELETED
Deleted as part of the above sequence

352 – Socialist 1
Tiocfaidh ar la. you not saying where your meeting is then?

353 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it

354 – Morgan
Not my meeting mate - I attend meetings, I don't claim them.

355 – dave bloom
well I've already said it's in Goose Green , but I am not willing to divulge any further information - I don't relish the prospect of being attacked with a claw hammer, so I've said too much already really

356 – Socialist 1
Trust me i will never be a mate of yours or any other NAZI. I was thinking of attending the meeting at Goose Green tonight. You care to tell me? ha ha ha Tiocfaidh ar la

357 – Socialist 1
is it not in the swan any more then?

358 – Morgan
Was that the pub we had our last meeting in, in Leigh?I'm not too well up on pubs you see - I don't drink alcohol.

359 – Leviticus
Tiocfaidh ar la - our day will come , the motto of the I.R.A. showing your true colours now Socialist 1,

360 – Socialist 1
ha ha im sure you know better than me.wooo wooo

361 – Morgan
Tiocfaidh ar la = Our day will come.Actually, it's been and gone in loads of places - and everywhere it went it made a tyrannical mess and the people were so happy once they 'persuaded' it to be gone.

362 – Socialist 1
you read up on it then linctus? must have taken you along time. joined up words and all that. are you at the meeting tonight too?

363 – Leviticus
I like to know who and what the enemy of democracy is, and we all know what you are, as for the meeting I am as much in the dark as you on that one

364 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it

365 – Morgan
Are these people capable of ever learning? All deleted posts from the past few pages have said the same thing. This constant re-posting is because this is a freedom of speech issue: not my freedom to speak, but others' to listen.This is American - but decribes exactly what's happening here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s
... as S1 goes rooting through its toolbox for a suitable accessory to wear/carry to a political meeting ... analyse this picture. Carefully note the numbers accompanying each date, and read in chronological order (sorry about the multi-syllable words) and think of the future.http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oOZT0MnFY50/SeV-fhlG8MI/AAAAAAAAAzY/ovSeNnwPpAE/s1600-h/weyman-vote.jpg
Now posted on the Wigan Patriot blog - with conventional graphs of the same data.http://www.wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/
Readers do notice you know - it's not us that wants to stop ordinary folk having access to all points of view so they can make their own minds up - it's the leftards that do that. People then want all the more to know what WE are saying. They already know what YOU are saying because they've been getting nothing else for years. Forbidden fruit always tastes sweeterHad you left the original post in place it would now be lost in the comment back-pages. By playing these games all you are doing is keeping it up front, which suits me - more people get to read it. That's the trouble with people like you: you are so ideologically hidebound that you don't think, you only feel (hate). Just not good enough in the modern world. If you want to win, you have to actually argue your point. You prefer censorship - whether with a keyboard or a hammer - all the same to you.
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That was the final re-post of the post/deletion sequence described above. It remained in place so the deleter obviously accepted that I was never going to let it remain deleted.
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366 – celedrialjoy
Just got home from work , been telling everyone about whats been happening on here and how people are not being allowed to debate. Been telling everyone about ELLIOT BROWN and S1. People could not believe it when I told them what OUR race hate co-ordinator had said about US. I think WEP website is going to get quite a few more hits tonight.

367 DELETED
Deleted before I could grab it

368 – Morgan
By the way - a blog owner down in London has just asked if he can use my grabs to make a post about that last conversation involving Franzen, at his place. Yup - no sweat. Also offered him my grabs from this censorhip episode if he wants.

369 – Socialist 1
ha ha you work together. ha ha you been phoning each other with what to say ha ha ha ha. you are pathetic

370 – Morgan
Caught - yes S1, we confess, it's all a conspiracy to drive you insane.And we have been wonderfully successful haven't we.Loon.

371 – Socialist 1
well thats not nice captain is it. and heres us having some fun, winding you up for days and you biting. we have had a really good belly laugh ha ha ha see you around soon ha ha ha i have got some champagne in the fridge mmmmm here to... er not you NAZIS

372 – Morgan
Champagne Socialist eh. Yes, a lot of them around these days."The workers united" indeed.

373 – Socialist 1
xxx :-)

374 – Socialist 1
socialist world we would all drink champagne. bye doe!!!

375 – Socialist 1
i will have to say before i go, its been fun haha lol lol lol lol lol xxx

376 – celedrialjoy
S1,Champagne in the fridge, a bottle of red wine when the labour lefty thugs attacked the BNP man with a CLAW HAMMER hmmmmmmmmmmm things are begining to add up. Its not that you didnt have a brain to join in with sensible debate, Its more likely that you were incapable through youre habit of imbibing the demon drink.

377 – Britishlady
celedrialjoy,Tiocfaidh ar la - our day will come , the motto of the I.R.A. - Sorry but I am no fan of the IRA ...A devotee of the SWP and Searchlight, shown by certain comments made." Be Gone, Be Gone, " another favourite utterance, his he into Vodoo as well ?.Obsessed with DNA and the word Nazi, not a happy chap.Sad really !

378 – whatnicknameisnotinusethen
Regarding Nazi Scum1 and his champagne in the fridge.. He claims he doesn't drink????Back to the subject matter....If the police couldn't find out who these girls were by now, then most likely they do not exist.

379 – Britishlady
whatnicknameisnotinusethen ?Well three or four other people on the bus ?Plus the Driver, plus more than likely CCTV,I agree, then most likely they do not exist.
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That was the end of the conversation. Our opponents had left by now, with the story itself having moved back three pages on the Wigan Today website, so very unlikely to be read by new people. We may have won the arguments, and we may have arrived at a satisfactory final conclusion, BUT WE LOST! “SHUT UP” WON.

Folks – we have to analyse this conversation and learn lessons to stop ourselves being so comprehensively beaten in the future. I think the key to it will be in persuading the editor to remove that – effectively – automatic delete function. How likely is that?

Leftards – SHUT UP

Morg – NO!

But through the newspaper’s indulgence of shut-uppery with that delete function - on demand, they shut us up anyway just until the story has moved so far back no one new will bother reading it.

Morg
.